Comments on: A Question for Atheism http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/ A Sporadic Blogger Wed, 14 Jul 2010 07:48:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Jim http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3809 Jim Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:16:23 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3809 Ah, the old <a href="http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/" rel="nofollow">amputees argument</a>. Yes, I'm familiar with it. But if you think about, demanding proof that God exists in a certain way is almost illogical. For example, if the only way that you will believe that God exists is if an amputee grows a leg back, and it happens, doesn't that make you the god instead of God? In the end it comes down to what you say and want. Yes, there are, unfortunately, many different beliefs on the bible. This doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, however. Any subject (from politics to science to religion) will have many different beliefs, but that doesn't mean the subject is wrong. Of course, some of those people undoubtedly have mistaken beliefs, but it doesn't nullify the subject as a whole. Ah, the old amputees argument. Yes, I’m familiar with it. But if you think about, demanding proof that God exists in a certain way is almost illogical. For example, if the only way that you will believe that God exists is if an amputee grows a leg back, and it happens, doesn’t that make you the god instead of God? In the end it comes down to what you say and want.

Yes, there are, unfortunately, many different beliefs on the bible. This doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong, however. Any subject (from politics to science to religion) will have many different beliefs, but that doesn’t mean the subject is wrong. Of course, some of those people undoubtedly have mistaken beliefs, but it doesn’t nullify the subject as a whole.

]]> By: Aspentroll http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3808 Aspentroll Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:10:48 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3808 Hi Jim, you said: "@Aspentroll: Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, I think you're making assumptions about what God has to be in order for you to have "proof" he exists. Christianity has a vastly different conception of a God who, while still good, is in no way obligated to give us everything we pray for. However, that is neither here nor there in the current discussion, so I will leave it for another time". Which of the many, many concepts of religion are you talking about? There are so many different ways the Pastors, priests etc flog their views. I've read the bible and can't believe the number of contradictions that appear in it. Some people(fundies)have to believe all of the bible and are controlled by their beliefs to the point where they actually give money to people like Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, Peter Poppov etc. This is why I can't get interested in something that tragic. There will have to be some miracle from this god of yours such as amputees actually growing back their limbs after they have prayed for this to happen. And maybe..just maybe I would take off my devil suit. Hi Jim, you said:

“@Aspentroll: Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, I think you’re making assumptions about what God has to be in order for you to have “proof” he exists. Christianity has a vastly different conception of a God who, while still good, is in no way obligated to give us everything we pray for. However, that is neither here nor there in the current discussion, so I will leave it for another time”.

Which of the many, many concepts of religion are you talking about? There are so many different ways the Pastors, priests etc flog their views.
I’ve read the bible and can’t believe the number of contradictions that appear in it. Some people(fundies)have to believe all of the bible and are controlled by their beliefs to the point where they actually give money to people like Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, Peter Poppov etc.

This is why I can’t get interested in something that tragic. There will have to be some miracle from this god of yours such as amputees actually growing back their limbs after they have prayed for this to happen. And maybe..just maybe I would take off my devil suit.

]]> By: Jim http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3788 Jim Fri, 04 Apr 2008 03:41:45 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3788 @Daron S: The idea of life fighting entropy is tempting, though many might not accept it. I think what it really shows is that as humans we seek purpose for our lives, no matter what that purpose is. As far as the conditions on earth, we could turn the whole thing around and say: Isn't it amazing that God created a universe so vast and beautiful, yet uninhabitable, but then deemed it good to make a place in which humans could survive? There's no reason we should think of the universe as having been created simply to give man a place to exist. @Daron S: The idea of life fighting entropy is tempting, though many might not accept it. I think what it really shows is that as humans we seek purpose for our lives, no matter what that purpose is.

As far as the conditions on earth, we could turn the whole thing around and say: Isn’t it amazing that God created a universe so vast and beautiful, yet uninhabitable, but then deemed it good to make a place in which humans could survive? There’s no reason we should think of the universe as having been created simply to give man a place to exist.

]]> By: Darron S http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3791 Darron S Thu, 03 Apr 2008 23:56:19 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3791 As to "why we exist", I recall reading in a book (the name of which escapes me) the idea that life exists to fight entropy. This idea of favoring order over chaos is tantamount to life. Maybe that's our whole purpose; to stop and even reverse the gradual decay of the universe into chaotic nothing. If I were religious I would constantly wonder, if a supreme being really did create the universe just for humankind, why is most of the universe so hostile to us? We can only really survive on a portion of the surface of this planet, and we can only go up about 2 miles before the conditions become to harsh for unaided survival. Seems like a bad design to me if it were really made for man. Sorry, my mind wanders... =) As to “why we exist”, I recall reading in a book (the name of which escapes me) the idea that life exists to fight entropy. This idea of favoring order over chaos is tantamount to life. Maybe that’s our whole purpose; to stop and even reverse the gradual decay of the universe into chaotic nothing.

If I were religious I would constantly wonder, if a supreme being really did create the universe just for humankind, why is most of the universe so hostile to us? We can only really survive on a portion of the surface of this planet, and we can only go up about 2 miles before the conditions become to harsh for unaided survival. Seems like a bad design to me if it were really made for man. Sorry, my mind wanders… =)

]]> By: Jim http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3786 Jim Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:17:07 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3786 The purpose of this thread isn't too argue about the existence of God or assumptions, it was merely to ask a question, which several people have provided a clear and concise answer too. As to assumptions about God existing or not, I'll may take that up another time, or I may not. Either way, there are many, many extremely intelligent people on both sides of that debate and I don't think the issue will be settled soon, or ever, by either of us. The purpose of this thread isn’t too argue about the existence of God or assumptions, it was merely to ask a question, which several people have provided a clear and concise answer too. As to assumptions about God existing or not, I’ll may take that up another time, or I may not. Either way, there are many, many extremely intelligent people on both sides of that debate and I don’t think the issue will be settled soon, or ever, by either of us.

]]> By: Jake http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3785 Jake Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:51:04 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3785 @ Jim : I understand that you as a xian would say that you don't know how your god exists, but that just goes back to the bias problem. You start with a bias and form a conclusion, even if that conclusion is that you don't know. So even though you and I may come to the same conclusions about the nature of existence, it's your side that's adding more to the equation then what needs to be there. Saying " god did it " is like unto wishful thinking. It doesn't really answer anything, and because of it's subjective nature, only serves to muddy any type of reality with which your god hypothesis is injected into. @ Jim : I understand that you as a xian would say that you don’t know how your god exists, but that just goes back to the bias problem. You start with a bias and form a conclusion, even if that conclusion is that you don’t know. So even though you and I may come to the same conclusions about the nature of existence, it’s your side that’s adding more to the equation then what needs to be there. Saying ” god did it ” is like unto wishful thinking. It doesn’t really answer anything, and because of it’s subjective nature, only serves to muddy any type of reality with which your god hypothesis is injected into.

]]> By: Jim http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3790 Jim Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:59:33 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3790 @Aspentroll: Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, I think you're making assumptions about what God has to be in order for you to have "proof" he exists. Christianity has a vastly different conception of a God who, while still good, is in no way obligated to give us everything we pray for. However, that is neither here nor there in the current discussion, so I will leave it for another time. @Aspentroll: Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, I think you’re making assumptions about what God has to be in order for you to have “proof” he exists. Christianity has a vastly different conception of a God who, while still good, is in no way obligated to give us everything we pray for. However, that is neither here nor there in the current discussion, so I will leave it for another time.

]]> By: Aspentroll http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3787 Aspentroll Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:26:21 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3787 I have been an atheist all of my 73 years and because of that I do not worry about all the things that can not be proven at his time. I think that only people who have been indoctrinated into religion have these worries. It seems really simple for me to decide which of the two sides to believe. I really cringe when I hear what the religious people believe about how everything happened and other supposed facts of the bible. Common sense dictates that the scientific view is the easiest to swallow, at least for me. The definition of atheism is simple, no belief in any god(s) or supernatural entities. Since I have never seen any god(s) or anything supernatural, I naturally believe they don't exist. All religious people pray about just about everything, if they were truthful they would all say that it doesn't work. I will be a believer when "God" suddenly decides to show up for work and actually does something credible. My proof would be: all amputees with their limbs regrown, all cancer gone forever, all human problems corrected, etc. Until then I am content to go on as I am, being a good living person without regrets or worrying about an imaginary Hell or Heaven. I put it all down to freethinking. I have been an atheist all of my 73 years and because of that I do not worry about all the things
that can not be proven at his time. I think that only people who have been indoctrinated into religion have these worries. It seems really simple for me to decide which of the two sides to believe. I really cringe when I hear what the religious people believe about how everything happened and other supposed facts of the bible. Common sense dictates that the scientific view is the easiest to swallow, at least for me.

The definition of atheism is simple, no belief in any god(s) or supernatural entities.
Since I have never seen any god(s) or anything supernatural, I naturally believe they don’t exist. All religious people pray about just about everything, if they were truthful they would all say that it doesn’t work. I will be a believer when “God” suddenly decides to show up for work and actually does something credible. My proof would be: all amputees with their limbs regrown, all cancer
gone forever, all human problems corrected, etc. Until then I am content to
go on as I am, being a good living person without regrets or worrying about an imaginary Hell or Heaven. I put it all down to
freethinking.

]]> By: Jim http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3794 Jim Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:21:22 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3794 I am asking <strong>how</strong> we exist, not why. My Christian worldview does give me the why of our existence; in the words of the Westminster Catechism: "Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever." So I am asking how we, or anything exists, and how that existence is explained or not explained. Your answer, "We don’t know exactly how we exist," is perfectly acceptable to me. Indeed, I have a similar response when asked how God exists. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my question, it has helped me with my own thoughts. I am asking how we exist, not why. My Christian worldview does give me the why of our existence; in the words of the Westminster Catechism: “Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.”

So I am asking how we, or anything exists, and how that existence is explained or not explained. Your answer, “We don’t know exactly how we exist,” is perfectly acceptable to me. Indeed, I have a similar response when asked how God exists.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my question, it has helped me with my own thoughts.

]]> By: Jake http://smidg.in/2008/04/01/a-question-for-atheism/#comment-3789 Jake Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:39:56 +0000 http://smidgin.wordpress.com/?p=132#comment-3789 Jim, sorry for asking for more clarification, but are you asking WHY we exist, or HOW we exist ? We don't know exactly how we exist. We may figure that out sometime in the future, but right now we just don't know. My point earlier was that it's important not to make assumptions based on our bias. As for WHY we exist, well again, that goes back to what I said about having an anthropomorphic perspective of the formation of the universe. Your bias assumes that there is a reason for our existence. I personaly don't make that assumption. I exist because I exist. The meaning behind that existence I create myself daily. Jim, sorry for asking for more clarification, but are you asking WHY we exist, or HOW we exist ? We don’t know exactly how we exist. We may figure that out sometime in the future, but right now we just don’t know. My point earlier was that it’s important not to make assumptions based on our bias.

As for WHY we exist, well again, that goes back to what I said about having an anthropomorphic perspective of the formation of the universe. Your bias assumes that there is a reason for our existence. I personaly don’t make that assumption. I exist because I exist. The meaning behind that existence I create myself daily.

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